Dripping in Stories that Speak featuring Candace Johnson

Mr. Al Pete (00:02.018)
Good day, good afternoon, good evening, my people is Mr. Al Pete with the mighty MPN network here again with the Dripping in Black Dripping in Black. We got to do some stadium music right here, which when I say stadium music, I mean, round of applause. So hopefully that sound is going. But thank you. Thank you. Thank you for hitting play on this. We are starting season six, six seasons of black excellence Dripping in Black. So round of applause for that as well.

And I am grateful to be back with you all on this journey through season six. All right. I am Mr. Al Pete Like I stated, listen, you're to be seeing the other guest hosts, but still expect to see deep and dynamic conversations from us. It doesn't change up. We are doing the same old thing, same great things. Okay. So a couple of announcements before we get to it, please make sure you subscribe to the channel and also go to the website, dripping and black.com. Go there.

get all the information from the other guests that have been on there. Shout out to Dominic Lawson. He's the other host as well. But we have a lot, a lot of content that you can catch up on and just listen to some great dynamic stories that have been presented with the Drip in the Black headquarters. Okay. Also, I have a beautiful mug right here and I got it from the Drip Shop. The Drip Shop, that's right. Please go to D-I-B-K.

dripshop.com and get you some shirts, get you some mugs and all that stuff, some beautiful things over there. So go to D-I-B-K dripshop.com to get you some swag from the Dripping in Black headquarters. Okay. All right. So without further ado, we have our first guest that's going to kick off season six, season six, Ms. Candace Johnson. Let me get to the bio and read about that.

and then we're to bring her on and have a very great conversation with her. All right. Candace Johnson is a 2023 Hurston-Wright Fiction Fellow and Journalism graduate of Michigan State University. From my understanding, they say go green and then somebody else says go white. I caught on to that very quickly before we even started. All right.

Candace Johnson (02:15.974)
That's correct. You got it.

Mr. Al Pete (02:24.206)
She spent her first half of her career as a sports writer and entertainment editor at the Virginian Palette and the Indianapolis Star before making a switch into corporate communications for the pharmaceutical and biotech industries. Her indie novel, The Kitchen Isn't Where You Cook, was released in December of 2024 on all digital platforms as a paperback on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Books A Million, and more.

and she currently lives in the Northwest Chicago suburbs with her husband and two children. Ladies and gentlemen, let's make some noise for Ms. Candace Johnson. How are you doing today, ma'am?

Candace Johnson (03:00.984)
I'm very well. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.

Mr. Al Pete (03:07.618)
Good, good. Thank you for being here. And we're here to learn your story and to honor you in this Drip in the Black atmosphere, OK? Good.

Candace Johnson (03:16.886)
Awesome. It's funny I'm on a podcast. I'm not a big podcast listener, but now I guess I need to be.

Mr. Al Pete (03:21.344)
Well, I mean, it's fine. know, I mean, it's OK to not be a podcast listener, I mean, but for the people. Well, if anything, that expands your your reach, because if you're not familiar with that atmosphere, there are people in this atmosphere that do love stories like this that we're about to hear. So no worries on that at all. We're welcoming you into that space.

Candace Johnson (03:44.028)
Good. You know, this is perfect place for me to start being a fan. Love it.

Mr. Al Pete (03:48.43)
Yeah, and honestly, from one fellow communications nerd to another communications, I wouldn't call you a nerd, you can call you nerd.

Candace Johnson (03:57.218)
calling me a nerd? Yeah, that's fine. I've been called a nerd.

Mr. Al Pete (04:01.166)
Well, from one person to another, you understand the dynamics of telling a story and being able to exhibit yourself freely in that space that you sit in. So you understand how that goes when it comes to interviews and stuff. doesn't, it matters, but it doesn't matter exactly what spaces that you're in. So long as the story gets told. Yes, ma'am. So let's start off. So

Candace Johnson (04:21.492)
Right, as long as the story gets told.

Mr. Al Pete (04:28.832)
It was on thread. Shout out to Shawn Smith, the Dripping in Black boss and King. He connected us in thread saying that we hope that we possibly had ran into each other at the recent NABJ 50th National Convention. Right? Yeah, Cleveland. So, and you stated this was your, this isn't your, that wasn't your first.

Candace Johnson (04:50.058)
In Cleveland, yes. Yep. Yeah, that's good.

Candace Johnson (04:58.026)
No, so as a journalism major at Michigan State, I worked at the student newspaper way back when, you know, they had the student portions of NABJ. I think the first one I went to might have been in Detroit, possibly. So I've been to NABJ years, just used to go all the time. Even after I left the industry and joined PR, I would know what a powerful audience that was.

part of it was like, let me still go. How can I find a way to go just to interact with people? So whether I was in media relations or corporate communications, I knew it was a perfect spot to go to reach the media, to reach media of color, and to get our stories told from a brand perspective. So I would go even after I left the industry, and we'd do different sponsorships and everything else. So then all the years that I went, I would go to the author's showcase or I would look to see who would be there, or I'd go to the online, to the bookstore that was at the convention.

And I would say, someday that's gonna be my book, someday I'm gonna be up there. And this year I applied for the author showcase and lo and behold, I was accepted thankfully. And I got to share the story of my coming of age novel, The Kitchen Is It Where You Cook, and it was fabulous.

Mr. Al Pete (06:05.526)
Nice, nice. So congratulations on that. I was looking through the Instagram and it just it seemed as if it was a good success for you and your book and just being on that side of things.

Candace Johnson (06:20.48)
Right, right. First time being there, it was surreal actually signing some books, like I was a real author. But I guess if you get a book out there, you write anything, you're a real author. Whether you're a bestseller novel or not, whether it's been turned into a Netflix show or not, if you write something, whether it's published or not, you're an author. So it was just surreal just signing the book. Like, wow, this is what I've been dreaming of since the second grade. Whether I'm able to do it full time or not, you still consider yourself an author. Because I've considered myself a writer since I picked up a pencil.

So whether it's best selling or not, the fact that it's out there, whether it's, know, how many people read the story, however many it resonates with is enough for me. It's fulfilling.

Mr. Al Pete (07:01.386)
Indeed, indeed. I have a question before we get into the actual book. So when it comes to being an author and then being in the communication space, right? Is it, I don't want to say a downplay, but do you feel like authors have an existing space or like, I guess a comfortable space in the media or communication space? Cause it feels like

Candace Johnson (07:05.688)
Mm-hmm.

Mr. Al Pete (07:30.22)
To me, it feels like when you're an author, you have your book, right? It fits perfectly in the communication space or anywhere existing when it comes to journalism, but it does seem like distant or it doesn't seem, it seems distant. And I'm not, I don't want to make it, I don't want to say anything incorrect or offensive or whatnot, but I would like your thoughts on that because I know a lot of authors that I feel like should be in the.

Communication Space.

Candace Johnson (08:00.502)
because they're so good at marketing. It's funny you say that because when I released it, was, like you said, it was self-published in December. And at the time I put it on all my other social channels, Instagram, threads, Facebook. And then I thought for a minute, this doesn't belong on LinkedIn. Like this has nothing to do with my job. So I'm not going to post it on LinkedIn. But then I thought, wait a minute. Yeah, it has everything to do with my job because it touches on identity.

and diversity and inclusion and everything else. So that's kind of how I couched it when I did put it on LinkedIn. And the response to there was, this is wonderful. This is great. I can't believe you're doing this. This is fabulous. So all of my colleagues, everyone I've worked with didn't seem to see, they didn't look at that post and think, why is she posting it? They looked at it like, this is wonderful. This is an addition to everything else that we know you're capable of as a communicator. But when it comes to the actual work, obviously it has to be separate.

Although, you know, have my mother of two kids, definitely my job takes up a lot of space, a lot of time. So any writing that I would do would have to be on the weekends. I'm not a night owl, so I couldn't write deep into the night like some other people. So that part, the actual process of doing it, I have to keep very separate. But the marketing part, just knowing that I have this communications background and I'm able to do PR, I can write a press release, I know who to reach out to, and I know how algorithms work.

And all that for social media, I think that benefits me a lot. More than maybe some other writers possibly, who knows? Because I know some other people who've done some self-publishing since I did, and they said, well, how did you get on an MBJ? Or how did you get this? Or how did you do that? And I said, well, it's kind of stuff that I did do every day. I do it for the people I work with. I do it for executives. Why can't I do the same for myself?

Mr. Al Pete (09:28.45)
Hmm.

Mr. Al Pete (09:46.35)
Yeah, that's, I don't have the word for it, but I'm gonna say like, I'm gonna say cash cow. sounds so, if I would call you a cash cow, we'll be having this conversation on the yacht. But like, yeah, it just gives you a very high advantage for you to be creative.

Candace Johnson (09:56.268)
I wish!

Who you calling a cat?

Candace Johnson (10:11.672)
Have a great.

Mr. Al Pete (10:15.924)
as well as know how to like market the creative. I, it's a very few amount of people that I know that can like really play that line like very, very well. So that advantage is like, it's a very strong advantage to have. So congratulations.

Candace Johnson (10:31.178)
It is, but it was hard though, because as a writer, you're in the background. You're used to being alone and writing and everything else. And as a PR person, I'm doing everything for the executives, like I said, or for the company. I was never the center. And as a journalist, you don't put yourself in the middle of the story. So for me to put myself out there, that part was difficult. I knew what to do, but to make myself vulnerable like this with a story that was so close to home, that part was difficult.

Mr. Al Pete (10:47.256)
Yeah.

Mr. Al Pete (10:57.57)
Yeah, I got you. So, let's get into the story. well, let's get into the book. The book is titled The Kitchen Isn't Where You Cook. Yeah. And I'm just going to read a small insert from, Amazon is Marissa Logan. Correct? Am I saying that correctly? Yes. Marissa Logan is a black girl who doesn't know how to be black in the coming of age novel. The Kitchen Isn't Where You Cook.

Candace Johnson (11:08.236)
Yes.

Candace Johnson (11:16.165)
huh.

Mr. Al Pete (11:24.546)
We see Marissa grow up in a small white Michigan town in the 80s as the only black girl in school. Sure, she's pretty smart and popular, but none of that can mask the fact that she's different. Tell us a little bit about that. Let's break that down.

Candace Johnson (11:34.776)
Mm-hmm.

So Burb, I'm gonna ask you a question too. So based on that blurb, do you understand what the title means?

Mr. Al Pete (11:47.97)
When I, so when I think of the title and I see 80s and I think about that she's a black girl, I do pause for a minute and kind of think about like why the title was there because I think if it was based maybe a little bit earlier, I don't know, I might, might would be understanding, but if you could, yeah.

Candace Johnson (12:08.568)
You're like, so I explained it in a few others, obviously anyone who's non-melanated would not understand it even after I explained it. So most of time I just kind of go this kitchen. So it's the kitchen in the bed, in nape of your head, nape of your neck. And she didn't know that's what it meant. You know, when I say she's a black girl who doesn't know how to be black, she didn't know, oh, you're not talking about the kitchen where we cook. You're talking about the kitchen back here where her cousin's like, girl, yeah, you didn't know that. What's going on with you?

So that's kind of where the whole thing summarizes it. Like she goes through life as a black woman, well, mostly her childhood, but there's certain things she just does not know. Cause it's the eighties, you know, there's no soul train. There's no black boys to date, no R &B radio stations, any of that, no black kids, no black boys to date, no one to hang out with to learn those things. They have Jet Magazine in their house. They have Ebony in their house. You know, their parents try their best, but if you're surrounded in the closest black...

community is an hour away and it's the 80s, you don't have social media. You don't have cable television and BET at your disposal to learn just any pop culture thing that young kids would want to know. And that's kind of where the title came from. It's not just the only thing she doesn't know that this is what we call the kitchen. It's just so many other things regarding growing up black and being, she was proud of who she is. She definitely knows she's black, but when she's younger, she thinks the best way to get along is to assimilate.

Because that's all she knows. Like, I'm going to like what they like. I'm going to try to do my hair like them. But then as she grows, she understands, why are they asking me why I use cocoa butter? Or why are they asking me why I don't wash my hair every day like they do? So as she grows, she understands that, OK, I know I'm different, but it doesn't matter to me. They're still my friends. But then she realizes that they also look at her like, OK, you're popular and pretty and smart, but you're still not one of

You know, you have to be twice as good to get half as much and you will only have half as much as far as we're concerned. So that's kind of everything she has to grapple with growing up. I wanted to make her above and almost not even as good or as smart or popular as anyone else, but the black excellence is just off the charts when it comes to her. And that's what I wanted. I wanted all things to be equal, more than equal with her, but still have this...

Candace Johnson (14:30.504)
attitude toward her from her so-called friends and her classmates that you're still not one of us and you're still not good enough. You have to stay over in that lane because you're

Mr. Al Pete (14:38.868)
Right. Sounds like sounds like identity. Well, one of the many things that's being spoken about in this book is about the whole identity action. What made you go that route in regards to the to the identity? Is it something that especially presenting this at like, you know, at NABJ? I mean, of course, think of NABJ, it's predominantly black, you know what saying? So to be able to bring your book into a space like that, how was that received or?

Candace Johnson (14:42.946)
Mm-hmm.

Candace Johnson (15:03.031)
Love you.

Mr. Al Pete (15:08.652)
What was the mission in regards to that? In regards to the identity.

Candace Johnson (15:13.782)
Yeah, so it was a lot of it's coming to page based on my own story. I grew up in a small white town in the 80s in Southwest Michigan, no stoplight, no McDonald's, no black people. And again, was Kalamazoo was about an hour west, an hour east of us. And we used to have to go to, me and my siblings would go to Benton Harbor, which is nearby and mostly black. And we'd get...

Mr. Al Pete (15:18.432)
Okay.

Candace Johnson (15:35.608)
we take the Jet Magazine with us. And if you remember in Jet, at the end of the magazine, they had a list of the top 10 albums and the top 10 singles. We take that to the record store in Benton Harbor and basically ask the guy, of all of these, what should we buy? Like, we don't know half of these songs. So what would you suggest we buy? And that was the only way that we could just figure out what was going on in our world. So it's kind of based loosely on my upbringing.

But to your question about NABJ, I thought the same thing. Because my husband's from Flint and there are people in who he's never read the story. He said, I know your story. Why do I need to read it? He told me everything. But people in his family who grew up with nothing but black kids in their school wouldn't relate. He went to Michigan State as I did and he got there and he had a different identity crisis. I got there like, whoa, black people. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. He got there like.

why are all these white people here? We didn't have white people in my town in his high school. So it was a totally different identity crisis or culture shock for him. And so I thought for a minute, like, who's the audience for this? Like, should Black, would Black people really get this if they grew up around nothing but Black folks? But what I found at NABJ and from some of the reviews I've seen is that even if you grew up differently than I did, at some point, whether it's in college or post-grad or the corporate America,

you will be the only one. And you will be seen as less than no matter how many accomplishments you have. You will be seen as you only, you a lot of the, got this because of isms. You got this because of affirmative action or you got this because of quotas or anything else. So that's what I found at the NABJ. A few people grew up just like I did, they told me, and then others would say, I went through this in the newsroom. I went through this, you know, in corporate America. I went through this when I went to get my graduate degree.

So that identity aspect, whether they can relate to growing up like that or just being seen later in life as not good enough, no matter what you do or having your ideas stolen from you because of who you are, or just not being listened to or having your ideas shared and people not really giving you the credit for it. That's the things that they can relate to when it comes to this identity theme in this book.

Mr. Al Pete (17:50.541)
Very good, very good, very good. I mean, because when you think of the culture shock, well, to me, one side of it is like, I want people to know that I or the character, know, people that read a book, that the character exists in this world that...

Candace Johnson (17:54.36)
It's a lot.

Mr. Al Pete (18:14.542)
you know, that possibly people don't even know about. Like, you know, it's that shocking, it's that one shocking factor. But then you have the other factor as well, where it's like, well, maybe I could exist in this space and I might not see anything wrong or whatever, but there's some form of awareness that needs to exist in this situation, especially when I'm reading more into, in the Amazon thing where it's stating about the 2016 election. So.

Candace Johnson (18:17.27)
Run away.

Mr. Al Pete (18:42.028)
You know, when you thinking about that type of stuff, you like, okay, there's a awareness that needs to happen. There's like a, yeah, it's that pull and tug type situation. Yeah.

Candace Johnson (18:47.288)
me.

Candace Johnson (18:52.48)
Right, right. She passes, she goes through this huge pendulum swing. So, you know, when she's really young, it starts off, she's like in the fourth grade. So I just wanted to paint the picture of this utopia in her mind. Like, I love my town. I would never want to leave here. I love all my friends. Everything's hunky dory. Everything's great. And then she starts to swing as she gets older, you know, with all these different things happen to her. And she starts to think I got to get out of here. The small town is smothering me. But then in college, she swings to the total opposite end.

Mr. Al Pete (18:56.876)
Sure.

Mr. Al Pete (19:02.668)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Candace Johnson (19:21.302)
know, the nineties fight the power era. She's wearing the Malcolm X hat and then, know, African medallion and all that. Then as an adult, she kind of comes to the middle where, okay, I have to coexist in white corporate America, but now I'm more aware, you know, I know woke is an inflammatory term and with certain audiences, but she's pretty much woke like, okay, when I was younger, I was naive. I trusted way more than I probably should have, but through all the different hurts that happened to her.

Mr. Al Pete (19:25.122)
Yeah.

Mr. Al Pete (19:47.106)
Yeah.

Candace Johnson (19:49.624)
She goes back to the middle and she gets this whole, I can coexist, but I don't have to, I can be aware. Right, I don't have, right, I can be aware now and I can arm myself with what I need to, to deflect all the hits that are going to come my way. So she has a huge pendulum swing, yeah.

Mr. Al Pete (19:57.623)
switch anything

Mr. Al Pete (20:07.118)
Yeah, something that can that swing can can knock you out too, especially especially the especially the character. So you don't have to answer this if you don't want to. But did you did you experience that swing? And when I say a swing, meaning like, was you did that swing hit you or you just kind of noticed or you you kind of roll with the swing, the coexisting swing?

Candace Johnson (20:14.432)
Right, right.

Candace Johnson (20:34.04)
Well, my mother was really well, my siblings called her militant. I didn't call her militant. She integrated Western Kentucky University when she was in high school, when she was a college student. So as a freshman, she and four classmates were the first blacks to enroll in Western Kentucky back in the 50s. All of them lasted one year. It was so horrible. And they switched and then transferred to HBCU. So I grew up with that knowledge about black history and black culture and black self-love.

So that was never a question, but I always used to wonder, why did you move us here then? Like, what the heck are we doing here if you're so pro-black and you're teaching us all of this stuff? And so I had that in my head, but I still trust it because I grew up, I'm since kindergarten, nothing but white classmates always. So a lot of the hurts that she goes through when she's younger, similar to what happened, we call them microaggressions now, back then.

Mr. Al Pete (21:09.72)
you

Candace Johnson (21:31.87)
it was just someone being a jerk. you know, no one's... What? No, that's the thing. I didn't want that. I didn't want the major trauma that you see in some books or movies. I didn't want the inward to be slinging at her. I didn't want it to be an outcast. I didn't want crosses burned. I didn't want any police shootings. I wanted it to be subtle, but so subtle that it was like death by a thousand cuts. Like, your hair is greasy. my gosh. You don't wash it every week.

Mr. Al Pete (21:33.71)
I'm about to say that was just straight up hate.

Mr. Al Pete (21:55.314)
yeah.

Candace Johnson (22:00.568)
or you look brown, like very first chapter, this kid says, burn, your skin looks burnt, you've left in the oven too long. Those types of little things, while she's just trying to enjoy life, she's just trying to go to school, be a cheerleader, do whatever like the boy she likes, but as she's doing that, all these little cuts come her way. And the same thing happened to me, it really did. But it wasn't to the point like her where she was just ready to go. Like I still stayed friends with a lot of people after high school.

Mr. Al Pete (22:19.022)
Yeah.

Candace Johnson (22:29.08)
after college as well. But as I got older and the external environment started to change a lot, that's when I thought, OK, some of the people I knew back then probably had these same tendencies that I'm seeing in 2016. But I just didn't know it at the time because they were just my friends and we're just trying to live life. But I did have the same pendulum swing in college. Like I said, the knucklebacks had to participate in a sit in in 1989 in Michigan State, all of that.

And then again, after college in the newsroom, kind of swung back to what.

Mr. Al Pete (23:04.236)
Gotcha. Yeah, I'm sitting here thinking like, I guess my pendulum swing moments when most people were like, well, you you got to be a musician. And that was like a nice way of saying like, he's definitely hip hop, like, you know, those spaces. And I'm like, yeah, like and the irony of that is I am I'm a DJ and a hip hop artist. But I know for me, I find those

Candace Johnson (23:20.44)
Mm-hmm.

Mr. Al Pete (23:32.128)
I find myself in those troubles, even to this day when I'm trying to get into like the media spaces, the media spectrum of things, you know, it's like they kind of keep you back. It's those subtle cuts. And it's almost like it hurts more getting those versus being blatantly called, you know, there.

Candace Johnson (23:44.482)
Yeah.

Candace Johnson (23:51.608)
Right, right. Because it's almost like you don't see it coming or you don't know how deep the cut is until days later. Like there's some times in corporate America, back when we were in the office every day, I'd sit in conference rooms and someone would be speaking and I'd watch their eyes and they'd make eye contact with everyone, skip over me. And I'd watch this repeatedly in several different jobs. I'd watch their eyes and they'd go around the room and speak and watch, they make eye contact, skip over me like I was invisible.

and then go to the next person, next person. That happens several times, several times. And it's so subtle that you're like, do you make a big deal out of it or do you not? Like, do they even know that that's

Mr. Al Pete (24:21.422)
Alright.

Mr. Al Pete (24:33.4)
But it's almost like, I would like to fully, fully read the book, but like, I'm just thinking from my perspective or any other perspective, it's almost like you get kind of stuck on not wanting to say anything because you're scared of the repercussions. And you're thinking about, yeah, as a black woman, black person or whatnot, you thinking like, they already, you feel like that you're here for a reason or a.

Candace Johnson (24:50.966)
Right, angry black woman, yeah.

Mr. Al Pete (25:03.15)
you know, it's a privilege that you're here. then so if you right, that's the cut. What are the many cuts of the situation? So, yeah.

Candace Johnson (25:05.537)
Right, just be happy, just be grateful. Yeah.

Candace Johnson (25:14.648)
What are many cuts? And for that, you have to grow a hard skin, so it won't cut so deep. Or you don't want to go around paranoid all the time, but you almost expect it. You're almost always on the edge, like, OK, once they see I'm Black, and once they see you know what I'm talking about, they're going to listen to me. Or they're just going to repeat what I said and take credit for their own. You just never know.

So those types of microaggressions, back then it wasn't that. I don't know what we called it back in the day, but was just so-and-so's being a jerk or guess what so-and-so said to me.

Mr. Al Pete (25:42.19)
I don't know.

Mr. Al Pete (25:51.534)
Yeah, I just learned that word maybe I mean, doing grad school. I I graduated from grad school in December 2024. But I remember writing a paper about microaggressions and thinking like, oh, man, this is we go through this a lot. It won't even realize I mean, just just from like gender, you know, like, I mean, race, sex, you know, all that religion and all that stuff. But when I think about us,

Candace Johnson (25:56.493)
Yeah.

Candace Johnson (26:06.24)
Yeah, a lot a lot.

Mr. Al Pete (26:20.278)
like in regards to like black people, I just think how so resilient we are, man. And, and, it's great.

Candace Johnson (26:25.624)
Totally. It's a miracle that we're here, honestly. It's just a miracle.

Mr. Al Pete (26:30.834)
Yeah, so and I want to ask this question, the whole, without giving it away, could you like talk about the liberating part of her character, Marissa's character? Is there any type of liberating moment or yeah, a liberating moment?

Candace Johnson (26:50.208)
Yeah, it reflects something that was my liberating moment in college. It's almost like the straw that broke the camel's back. And it was like, because at that point she has Black friends and she's more comfortable around Blacks because she goes to college and she's thinking, I'm more comfortable around white people because that's who I grew up with, but I want to be Black folks, but they make fun of the way I talk and they don't know where my town is and I always have to explain it and everything else. And she's thinking, I can be in both worlds.

Mr. Al Pete (26:57.975)
okay.

Candace Johnson (27:19.478)
I can bridge, you know, she's like a kumbaya, I can bridge both worlds. And eventually, you know, she gets cut again. And that was a straw that broke the camel's back. Like, okay, now I know, I can't trust them. Can't trust this. I can't get too close because something's always gonna come up and they just won't let me live. They just won't let me live my excellent life without bringing up race. Cause we get the question a lot. Why do you always bring up race? Because it's been brought up with us for decades and centuries. That's why.

Mr. Al Pete (27:38.657)
Mm-hmm.

Candace Johnson (27:47.896)
And that's kind of what hits her when she's in college, like, okay, I'm done, I'm done. And that was kind of a liberating moment. Like I'm done trying to bridge the gap. I'm done explaining things. I'm done trying to say, well, you know, answer questions like, why isn't there white history, ma? Those types of things she deals with. She's like, I'm just finished. So she kind of throws her hands up and says, I'm done.

Mr. Al Pete (27:53.986)
Yeah.

Mr. Al Pete (28:12.012)
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. Well, listen, people, please make sure you go get the book. The Kitchen Isn't Where You Cook by Miss Candace Johnson. This is definitely important to black people. If we can get little deep on this, not too, too deep on it, but this is definitely important for us to see and for us to understand that, you know, we can still be resilient on this because I do feel like a lot of people

Candace Johnson (28:13.944)
I'm gonna go home.

Candace Johnson (28:20.216)
you

Mr. Al Pete (28:41.742)
in these type of situations, you know, either give up or maybe take like a road that might not be favorable, you know what I'm saying? So I do feel like these, these, know, this book, and just your message on that you given the message through this book to everybody else is very, very important for, for African Americans to read.

Candace Johnson (29:04.927)
And it shows people, you if you think about small towns in the Midwest, what do you think about? White folks. Think about white farmers, white factory workers, because that's all you see on the news. There are black folks in small towns that aren't just in the South. We know there are black folks in the South in small towns, but in the Midwest, there are black people here in flyover country. And what's their life like? You know, what are they dealing with? You don't see them on the news being interviewed in the cafes on Main Street. You just don't. Why?

So this is a whole different perspective of growing up Black, because I keep telling my daughter, there's not one way to be Black. And there are Black folks in small towns in the Midwest. What is their perspective? What are they going through? How are they living? And that's what I'm hoping would come through with this book. This is a very small rural town that she's in.

Mr. Al Pete (29:51.246)
Beautiful, beautiful. Are there any books for any more books in the making or you're just going to focus on this for the moment?

Candace Johnson (30:01.048)
Yes. No, I finished one, was it last year or so? And it's about, it has a male of main character actually. It's about a marital couple, kind of love story, dealing with the ramifications of their son being diagnosed with autism. Because about 80 % of couples get divorced if they have a special needs child. And it deals with, I have a son who's autistic, he's 16. And a lot of this again is a lived experience.

Mr. Al Pete (30:25.773)
Mm.

Candace Johnson (30:29.72)
but we know that it's difficult for a lot of married couples. And this story just kind of focuses on him because I don't know if know Rodney Peat and Holly Robinson Peat, they have a son with autism. And when he was first diagnosed, Rodney wrote a book about how difficult it is for a man to see his son have autism. know, like, well, all the dreams I had for him are gone. And that's why I put this with the male point of view, because he has a son with autism and all of his dreams for a son. always wanted a son.

And how does that affect his relationship with his wife?

Mr. Al Pete (31:02.382)
Okay, think I saw, what's it Pete, Holly? Holly Wubbs? Yeah, I was watching the show yesterday. I think they was doing a show together. I forgot the of the show. It's like the King Show or something like that. it's interesting, interesting fact to know that, you know, the divorce rate happens because of a special needs kid.

Candace Johnson (31:04.0)
That's a good solo.

Candace Johnson (31:09.176)
Howdy Robinson. Yeah.

Candace Johnson (31:19.276)
Yeah.

Candace Johnson (31:27.032)
Yeah, I mean, I think one study said 80%, but it's definitely above average. If their divorce rate is 50, if you have a special needs child, it's higher, for sure. So that's next.

Mr. Al Pete (31:37.999)
Okay, cool cool. When is that book coming out again?

Candace Johnson (31:42.162)
It hasn't been read by anyone, so I'm sure I have several revisions to do and more editing and everything else I'm hoping sometime next year.

Mr. Al Pete (31:50.026)
Okay, cool, cool, cool. Look like you're getting in that bag like you get in that bag.

Candace Johnson (31:54.968)
From your mouth to God's ears.

Mr. Al Pete (31:57.838)
Nah, we gon' champion you on this, especially with this particular book, The Kitchen Isn't Where You Cook, because it's such an important story. think, you know, we have our typical black stories, right? We have, you know, the Martin Luther King books, you know, we have those type of books, but we need books like this that kind of breaks it down and gives us a very different perspective.

Candace Johnson (32:10.944)
Yes.

Candace Johnson (32:18.039)
You

Candace Johnson (32:25.112)
you

Mr. Al Pete (32:26.574)
And I know for me, tell people a lot when I go through, when I went through or go through racism, I went, I didn't go through racism like the typical way where, know, somebody or a white person was calling me the N word or whatever, like it was all systematic. It was, it was all, it was all in the system. Like it was the way that, and I felt like, and I would explain that to people and people would be kind of like, huh? And I'm like, all right, let me say this and then we can move forward.

Candace Johnson (32:40.184)
Right. Right.

Mr. Al Pete (32:56.654)
I talk to people and I tell them, I'm like, I don't necessarily have a problem with like a white person calling me, know the N word. I don't have a problem with that because I look at that as like, well, you have a problem with yourself. That don't affect me. Like that don't, you can call me that all day. I'd be like, ha ha, whatever. But the systematic aspect of it, like the suppression aspect of it, my goodness.

Candace Johnson (33:06.327)
Nice.

Candace Johnson (33:11.276)
Right.

Candace Johnson (33:19.736)
The people in power will do more harm than your average guy with the pickup truck calling you that word out of his window. Yeah, yeah. That's more harm.

Mr. Al Pete (33:27.53)
Absolutely. Right. Right. Right. Right. Like these people, these people can really like stop my, my progression. Like I could, like the whole, I got to work 10 times harder to get half of what the other person gets. That, that suppression is crazy. Like that, that's hurtful. Like you're, yeah. Like you're stopping, you're stopping generational wealth and

Candace Johnson (33:43.544)
Thank you.

Yeah, and it's pretty invasive.

Mr. Al Pete (33:56.522)
It's just all the things that they could just really destroy. So these type of stories are very important and it's something for black folks to know and white people and anybody to know these type of stories exist. So I commend you on like having this story for us to read and you know, we could be able to teach this to someone and someone could get inspired to be resilient.

Candace Johnson (34:13.442)
Yeah.

Candace Johnson (34:18.518)
I've had a few reviews from white people on Amazon, I think in Apple, that said, this story is for everyone. Like you need to understand the perspectives of the things you say. You know, it's funny, after some people I went to high school with read it, they were all just terrified that, did I say that to you? Was I acting like that with you? Was this me? Are you talking about me? So it's funny that they had that self-reflection as they read it. Like, wow, I didn't.

think what I was saying was even harmful because I wasn't thinking in that way. So yeah, it could be eye-opening for a lot of people.

Mr. Al Pete (34:52.78)
Yeah. Yeah, I'm sitting here trying to pull one real quick, but okay. So somebody, I'm about to read an Amazon review and it says, amazing story of how one girl learns about racial injustice while growing up in a small town and then finding her identity along the way. The characters are wonderful. This is not just a story for black readers. This is a story for all readers. Okay, word, okay.

Candace Johnson (35:18.796)
Yeah, that's what I was referring to, yeah. That's what I was referring to, yeah. Because when I was at NABJ, someone said, I think it wasn't in an author showcase, it was with a different session I was in. And they said, we're addicted to trauma porn when it comes to Black stories. Like everything is about racial cop killings or, you know.

the Civil War, slavery or anything else and civil rights. That's what the majority of our stories are. And so I purposely did not, one thing my husband said was, well, I don't know, you don't have enough sex in here. There's not enough violence. That's the stuff he watches. But I'm like, that's ridiculous because that's not the life that most of us live. We just don't go through that type of racism or violence. I some of us do, which is horrible.

But for the majority of us, it's these little microaggressions. Like you said, it's systemic. And those stories, yeah, those cuts and those stories aren't told enough where you just have to sit with it for a minute versus being horrified. It's like, that's horrible. gosh. But then sit with it because it's real life.

Mr. Al Pete (36:13.814)
It's those cuts.

Mr. Al Pete (36:25.774)
Yeah. And I'm sitting here just thinking about some of the stories that I've, know, some of the things that I've went through and yeah, we need more stories like this. And you're right, everybody does not experience, you know, it's not all about guns and drugs and cops and all that stuff, man. I know for me, and we, I experienced some of those things, but it wasn't as potent as like you sit in the corporate America job and.

Candace Johnson (36:35.362)
Yeah. Yeah.

Candace Johnson (36:44.214)
Mm-hmm. Really?

Candace Johnson (36:54.808)
Mm-hmm.

Mr. Al Pete (36:55.619)
you know, you're the only person in there and they really looking at you like that you should you should be privileged to be sitting in here and you like

Candace Johnson (37:02.74)
Right. Just be humble. Just be grateful. There's one time I went into work at different years ago, different company, and it took me almost 20 minutes after I walked in to see a face that was not white. Almost 20 minutes. I purposely said, okay, how many people? I counted. It was like 32 people or something before I saw one face that looked like mine. And so that did hit you. mean, people, you don't think about that if you're in the majority.

You know, you just, we get asked all the time, why are you self-segregating? This is in the book. Why are you self-segregating? Why are all the black people together? Do you ever ask that question when all the white people are together? You know, are you self-segregating? No one even thinks about that. Yeah, those are the things. When I was in, got into Michigan State, I told some friends and this one girl said, well, I didn't get in. I'm sure you got in because you were black. Nevermind that my GPA was higher than hers and I did more activities. Literally said.

Mr. Al Pete (37:43.574)
Right, right, right.

Mr. Al Pete (37:58.03)
Never, never, never mind that.

Candace Johnson (38:01.784)
You got him because you're black, not because you're smart. Yeah. Those little things. Yeah.

Mr. Al Pete (38:09.166)
That's interesting. Well, listen, this is is I need to get this book and have it in my collection for sure. And I can I can pass this on to some people that I know will benefit from it. Some people that's close to me that are experiencing this type of this type of energy. So it would be good to read it or whatever. But again, please, people, the kitchen isn't where you cook by Candace Johnson. Please make sure you go grab that. It's an Amazon books a million Barnes and Nobles.

Candace Johnson (38:27.192)
Yeah.

Mr. Al Pete (38:39.232)
in all the places, so please make sure you grab it.

Candace Johnson (38:40.984)
All the digital places, definitely.

Mr. Al Pete (38:43.402)
Indeed. So real quick before we finalize this interview, let the people know where, well, let the people know one thing about the book. give the call to action or, you know, the good spill of why they should get the book.

Candace Johnson (39:01.58)
Because there's not one way to be black. say a lot of the taglines I use is that she's a black girl who doesn't know how to be black, but she knows how to be black because she is black. You can't get away from that. Remember that Will Smith, that Fresh Prince episode when I think it was Carlton was trying to get into a fraternity or something.

And the guy said, well, you can't get in because you're rich. You're in Beverly Hills or Bel Air or wherever. You're not like me because you didn't grow up like me. He says, I'm running the same race as you are. So why are you holding me back? Being Black isn't who I'm trying to be. Being Black is who I am. And there's no getting away from that. So there's not one way to be Black.

Mr. Al Pete (39:36.45)
Mm-hmm.

Candace Johnson (39:40.76)
So I think that's really just the takeaway here is that she spends her whole life thinking she's not black enough just because of pop culture and things that she can't relate to, but that's her own insecurities coming into play because she doesn't feel like she belongs. So that I think would be the biggest takeaway is to know that there's not one way to be black as long as you're comfortable in your skin.

Mr. Al Pete (40:02.152)
Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. Again, please make sure y'all get the book. Please make sure you get the book. The kitchen isn't where you cook. Yeah. No problem. So last thing we're going to get into. Curious to know, have you been on a magazine cover in front of a magazine cover or a newspaper?

Candace Johnson (40:09.122)
Yes, please. Thank you so much.

Candace Johnson (40:25.784)
No, I did get an interview with the State News, which is Michigan State's student newspaper when it first came out, because they were doing a Black History Month series. And they knew that I was part of the sit-in in 89, and I was working at the State News at the time. And so they did a story on the book then. And then I had a few other online outlets, but no cover stories or anything. Yet, I'm speaking into existence, yeah.

Mr. Al Pete (40:46.966)
No cover stories? Yet. We're gonna wait, yes, yet, Indeed, indeed. So speaking of speaking into existence, this is what we have.

Mr. Al Pete (41:06.279)
laughter

Candace Johnson (41:11.742)
I love it. That is such an old photo, but it's my favorite. So I use it everywhere. my gosh, that's insane. Unbelievable, I almost had to sit.

Mr. Al Pete (41:20.608)
Yeah man, Revention, Resilience and Writing Beyond the Headlines. I love it.

Candace Johnson (41:26.076)
my gosh! I look legit. Look at that.

Mr. Al Pete (41:30.427)
Yes. So this is a, this is a, our, our personal gift to you from the dripping the black family. we want to honor you for being so great with the black excellence. And, we want to support you and welcome you into the dripping the black family with the cover. So we will give this to you. you have a physical copy of this as well. So, yeah, so this is something that you could put up. and this is an honor honor from, from us to you.

Candace Johnson (41:42.625)
Yeah!

Love it, love it.

Candace Johnson (41:51.414)
Yes!

Mr. Al Pete (41:58.231)
about the flat excellence that you do.

Candace Johnson (41:58.36)
That's amazing. thank you. So that was a trick question.

Mr. Al Pete (42:05.646)
Well, you know, had to throw my little journalism type. I had to throw it in. I had to get my journalism action, you know, be biased.

Candace Johnson (42:06.616)
What's the answer?

Candace Johnson (42:18.346)
Once a journalist, always a journalist. Love it, thank you.

Mr. Al Pete (42:22.862)
Yeah. So real quick, me ask this. So it says sports writer Favorite team.

Candace Johnson (42:28.055)
Yeah.

Candace Johnson (42:32.332)
Which sport?

Mr. Al Pete (42:34.818)
Well, NFL.

Candace Johnson (42:38.108)
Besides, I was going to say, know it's Michigan State all day, every day. If you're talking college, NFL, I'd have to say the Bears, because I remember that I had 85 Bears. Of course, my father grew up in Chicago. I live outside of Chicago now. I saw Walter Payton get inducted in the Hall of Fame back in the day. I loved him. Absolutely loved him. My brother wore his number when he played football. So definitely the Bears.

Mr. Al Pete (42:40.75)
Of course, of course, yeah.

Mr. Al Pete (42:53.833)
Candace Johnson (43:01.012)
And the Bulls, of course, in the 90s, grew up watching Michael Jordan and B.J. Armstrong and everyone else. Love that. Those are really the only two sports. But I like them all. I'm happy for the Lions fans. My husband's a Lions fan. Didn't grow up rooting for the Lions, but all my friends were, so I'm really happy for their fans that they're doing so well right now. Yeah. Love it. I love it.

Mr. Al Pete (43:07.779)
Yeah.

Mr. Al Pete (43:21.186)
Yeah, indeed, indeed. Okay, cool, cool, cool. Well, you're up north with it. Of course, I'm down south with it, Jacksonville Jaguars. Yeah, these folks, yeah. Hopefully we get it together this year, we'll see.

Candace Johnson (43:29.104)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, they're... You and Trevor Lawrence, definitely. Newer franchise, way newer than the Bears, though. We've been around for a while.

Mr. Al Pete (43:36.888)
Yeah.

Mr. Al Pete (43:40.334)
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, I'm currently watching the Dallas Cowboys documentary on. my God. man, let me see. What episode are you on right now?

Candace Johnson (43:46.218)
Me too! I'm not done.

Candace Johnson (43:53.004)
Five? No, think we are about to start six. I believe.

Mr. Al Pete (43:56.289)
Okay, cool. Yeah, I think I'm on five and let me tell you that thing is very good. The first two, was like, I'm watching all of this.

Candace Johnson (43:59.896)
It looks good! Isn't it?

This episode, I said, this has done well. I thought it'd be like this big homage to Jerry Jones. thinking, I don't know what I'm gonna say, but it's good. They go through all of it. They hold no punches. Man, it's really good. Love that.

Mr. Al Pete (44:16.044)
Yeah, yeah, cool. Well, listen, we're not going to hold you too much longer. We greatly appreciate you for being on Dripping in Black. We honor you again. Hopefully you, well, obviously you like the cover that you were on. So, but we thank you for being so dedicated to like sharing Black stories like this, because these stories are not shared a lot, as you know often.

Candace Johnson (44:31.422)
Hahaha!

Mr. Al Pete (44:44.554)
It resonated just a little bit that we talked about it resonated with me and I know it's going to resonate with a lot of people inside and outside of the black culture. So we greatly, greatly appreciate you. Yeah. And let us let people know where they can find you at before we get up out of here.

Candace Johnson (44:54.828)
Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here.

Candace Johnson (45:01.752)
CandaceJohnson.com, Instagram threads is at Candace, A-N-D-Y-M-C 87.

Mr. Al Pete (45:09.23)
Indeed. Y'all make sure y'all follow her. Please make sure you grab the book and get to know her much, much more and be on the lookout for her second novel. Her second novel will be coming out next year. stay tuned. Indeed. All right. To my Dripping in Black. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. What'd say?

Candace Johnson (45:20.694)
Next year, hopefully. Good. We'd love to come back to talk about it too. I said, I'd love to come back and talk about it when it comes out.

Mr. Al Pete (45:29.256)
Absolutely. Listen, whenever you have any type of product or anything that you would like to share with us, are the floor and it is yours. So just let us know. We'll get you in the rotation for sure. Indeed. All right. So my people are Dripping in Black. Thank you so much for hitting play. Thank you for sharing it. I know you are sharing it because this is a great one. Please make sure that you go and share all the other stories as well. Go to Dripping in Black dot com and check out all the other shows that are happening.

Candace Johnson (45:37.88)
Thank you so much. Yay. Love it.

Mr. Al Pete (45:58.754)
We are in season six, y'all. Season six of a podcast is tremendous. All right. So I want to give special shots out and round of applause to Shawn Smith and the Dripping in  Black Headquarters. Shouts out to the other guest co-host, Dominic Lawson. You will be seeing him around and around and we might have a third person. Not sure, but be on the lookout and make sure you subscribe to the channel and follow us.

drippinginblack.com and make sure you go to the drip shop and get one of these joints right here like cups like these and mugs. Go to dibkdripshop.com. All right. So signing off Mr. Al Pete, be good to yourselves and be good to others and keep it black. To the top y'all.