Dripping in Self-Love and Success featuring Otis D. Winston

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Otis Winston 
What's up y'all? My name is Otis Winston. I am an actor and I am an author and my book Stuttering to Success is dripping in black.

Dominic Lawson 
What's up good people all across the world. This is the Dripping in Black podcast. am your guest host, Dominic Lawson, multi-award winning podcaster. And I also serve as the director of podcasts at Owls Education Company. Just wanted to thank the man behind the glass S Squared for this amazing opportunity to be here with you on this platform. Now, before I continue as always, you know, I got to support the merge dibk, drip shop.com. Now you may see what I got on now.

You won't find that in the merch shop. That's because that's one of the exclusive pieces from the first inaugural, Dripping in Black creators retreat. had a phenomenal, get together in Detroit, just us creators, just talking and workshopping and all the things. So, but if you want to get something else, go to dibkdripshop.com. but let me get back to the task at hand. He is an actor and storyteller with performances in hit shows such as SWAT

The Chi He's also appeared in all three films in the movie franchise Venom. He's also a two sport captain at The Ohio State. Apparently, I'm legally obligated to say it that way. And if that wasn't impressive enough, he has a book, Stuttering to Success, sharing how he turned personal obstacles into powerful opportunities. He is the amazing, the talented Otis D. Winston. What's up, my man?

Otis Winston 
What's up brother? Thank you for having me, man. I'm honored and blessed to be here.

Dominic Lawson
No, I really appreciate that. Now, before we kind of get into it, man, like, listen, you're an Ohio State guy, Esquire is a Michigan State guy. Let's make sure we just have like a nice little truce for this next hour. No slander, no nothing. Can we do that?

Otis Winston 
Look, I don't got nothing to say about Spartans. The boys played well yesterday, it's all Big Ten from here. I'm rooting for Big Ten. I'm rooting for Big Ten.

Dominic Lawson (01:48)
Fair enough. Fair enough.

Fair enough, fair enough,

fair enough. But you know, as we transition from the big team, let's talk about you, man. Let's talk about who is Otis Winston besides the actor, storyteller, author, know, sports star from Ohio State. Who is Otis outside of those things?

Otis Winston (02:13)
I'm a father, man. I'm a man who trusts and believes God to do everything that I want to accomplish in my life. Help me along with that as long as I do my part. I'm a brother. I'm a son. I'm a grandfather. I'm everything that I need to be. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes we get caught up in what we aren't instead of...

Dominic Lawson (02:35)
Hear that.

Otis Winston (02:42)
understanding who we truly are and I'm a man who strives to make sure others around me are comfortable. And once I learned how to do that and once I learned how to love me, it was able for me to learn how to love others and give others they do's because no one's my competition except for me. That's who I am.

Dominic Lawson (02:43)
So true.

I heard that.

You know, let's stay there for a minute. Talk about the process of loving you first. Like it reminds me of something you hear, you know, when you you hop on a flight, right? Put your put your mask on before you put on somebody else's. Talk about that piece of loving you first.

Otis Winston (03:19)
Mm-hmm.

Well, what's crazy is that people don't realize, like, one of the most powerful commandments that Christ says, love your neighbors, you love yourself, right? One of the things that we don't realize is that most people don't love themselves, so how can you love someone else? So what I had to learn to do, I had to learn how to truly, truly love me. And I did not realize I didn't love me until I wrote my book.

Dominic Lawson (03:32)
Mm-hmm.

Otis Winston (03:44)
And until I, because when I first wrote my book, was a hundred and forty, hundred and sixty nine pages. By the time I got done editing it, it was only seventy nine pages. What I was doing is I was bleeding on everybody who hurt me and during the editing process, I healed and I was able to just put the meat in the in the book, not the gossip. And what I had to realize is that I spent so many years not loving me.

How can I love somebody? I was a nice guy, I'm a nice guy, so I was doing things out of just being a nice guy. Just because I'm a nice guy don't mean I know how to love. Now that I love me, I know how to make sure people who are loving me love me properly because I'm loving them properly. You can't properly love someone if you don't love yourself. You don't know how to.

Dominic Lawson (04:29)
Right. You know, what's always interesting and fascinating to me, and thank you for that share, Otis, what's always fascinating to me in those moments, like how one, when you're telling your story like that, how it's not just helpful for the person who's hearing it or reading it for that matter, it's also healing for the person that's expressing what's going on, but also two, the doors and the opportunities that open up.

from that. Like, you we kind of rattled off your resume a little bit. And I look at your IMDB page and rather impressive, sir. Rather impressive. Right. But just the doors and the opportunity that comes up with, you know, you hear this phrase, not forgive me for being cliche, owning your truth and sharing your truth and things of that nature. it's just amazing how

how freeing it can be and the doors that open from that. And so clearly you are a testament and you've given a testimony to that. So I just wanted to make sure I pointed that out.

Otis Winston (05:31)
I appreciate that. And what people fail to realize, man, is you go through life thinking you're accomplishing a lot and you get caught up in routine. I was routinely loving people because it was routine. I was used to being in a relationship. So in a relationship, you just do what comes natural in a relationship. But you don't know what really comes with love if I'm not loving me. So I had to go through this process, man, where I sat alone for three months, three months isolated.

Dominic Lawson (05:38)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Otis Winston (06:01)
and I had to own my things that I did wrong. It wasn't everybody else's fault. I ended up where I ended up because of choices I made. And once I learned how to take accountability and own my actions, bro, my life changed. It was like the light switch went off and that's when God was like, okay, I can truly use you now because now you know how to step on, be like, hey, that was my bad. I messed up. That's my fault.

Dominic Lawson (06:11)
Right.

Sure.

Otis Winston (06:30)
You know what I'm saying?

Dominic Lawson (06:30)
Absolutely. No, absolutely. And I definitely want to get deeper into this conversation as we talk about your book later on, Stuttering to Success. But you know what, let's kind of start here if we could, because obviously we have a mutual friend in Krate, Krate Digga, who's an alum here at Dripping in Black, but also a fellow Ohioan as well. And one of the things I'm fascinated about it when it comes to Ohioans, just the

Otis Winston (06:52)
Yes, sir.

Dominic Lawson (06:58)
the talent that comes from that state. There's yourself, there's Krate, there's other people. I just interviewed Machome Robinson, who's an Olympic gold medalist from your state. Absolutely. Yep, absolutely. Yes, you did. Yes, you did. I ain't no wrong with that. We did a phenomenal collaboration on a project that I work on, Black is America. But just talk about Ohio.

Otis Winston (07:08)
Yeah, Northland. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she went to Texas. Absolutely. Mo's my girl. Mo's my girl.

Dominic Lawson (07:27)
the talent, the people, why, know, because if I'm not mistaken, even multiple US presidents have come from that state. So it's something in the water, the state of Ohio, that breeds success, excellence, and things of that nature. Just talk about growing up in Ohio.

Otis Winston (07:41)
What's crazy is I have a, this, I'm sorry, it's not a shameless plug. I have to say it because this is why I started. have a company called Buckeye Born Apparel. I started with Focus and then went to Buckeye Born. And one thing that I found out about the Buckeye Tree is it's one of the few trees that can grow in all four environments. Just like the Buckeye Tree, people born in a Buckeye state are the same way. No matter where you put us or plant us, we're going to grow. We're going to grow. We have that, that tenacity.

Dominic Lawson (07:50)
Mm-hmm.

I hear that.

Otis Winston (08:11)
You know, we have that, we have that determination. We know how to keep fighting no matter what, because it's about not stopping, right? That's all it's really about. It's about giving it day in and day out, not stopping without seeing results. I know a lot of people that grew up around me.

Dominic Lawson (08:21)
Mm-hmm.

Otis Winston (08:31)
where we haven't seen results of stuff. I've been doing this acting thing for 15 years, man. And I tell people all the time, if you want to be an actor, you got to be willing to get in the movie, have a line on a movie, tell everybody you in the movie, go to the movie and realize the line that you said is no longer in the movie. And you still got to be excited to know that I still did the work for that. Because if you are frustrated that your line got cut and hit the cutting room floor, then you're not going to be cut out for this.

Dominic Lawson (08:54)
Right.

Otis Winston (09:01)
And that's how life is. Some things that we work for just don't manifest. Do we quit? Do we give up? No, we keep going. That's us. Ohio people keep going no matter what. We're, man, we're tenacious. We're tenacious. We're the rose that grew out of the concrete,

You know, we always say, you know, the old cliche, you throw me to the wolves, I'm gonna come back leading the pack, man. That's us. That's what we do. I'm not trying to say we're any better than anyone else. All I'm saying is that we know how to keep going. You can overlook me. You can talk about me. You can do whatever you want to do. We're gonna keep going. I can look what Bronny just did. Been getting slammed. Slammed.

Dominic Lawson (09:21)
I hear that.

Hehehehehe

gotcha

Mm-hmm.

Otis Winston (09:47)
And his dad kept saying, go, go, go. Even we stepped to Stephen A. Stop talking about my son. You see what happened a few days ago? Out of nowhere, 17 points. You can't discredit that. But he had to have the fortitude to put the blinders on and keep going. A lot of Ohio people, man, we put the blinders on and we keep going, man, no matter what.

Dominic Lawson (09:53)
Right.

I hear that. I hear that. And thank you for sharing that. You and you talked about your acting and your acumen. Like you said, we talked about some of the projects that you've worked on. And if I'm not mistaken, I think you're getting ready to film another project here in the coming weeks or something like that. Where did the acting bug come from? Did that start at school? Was that recently or was there always a storyteller in sign? you just kind of walk me through that process?

Otis Winston (10:35)
What's crazy is that growing up, I stuttered and I couldn't properly talk. And the way I coped with it was watching television, television, and I talk about it in my book. And what happened is that, you know, I got picked on a lot, mostly at home. I'm the youngest of four boys. My brothers would let me have it.

Dominic Lawson (10:39)
Okay.

Otis Winston (10:56)
let me have it. So I would always be in my room watching TV, man. And I would escape the world I was in by fantasizing on TV. And when we moved from Youngstown to Toronto, the one place where I found comfort was, was like talent shows and on stage. I never stuttered. It was just me being me, but I didn't get the attention I wanted from home because all my brothers were athletes. So here I am on stage, like look at me trying to do this stuff. I'm not stuttering, but I,

I wasn't getting the attention that I thought I needed from my family. So I put all that on hold. And then I focused on trying to be the best athlete I can be because I wanted my family to notice me. So I put my passion aside and made sports my passion. And then here we are years later, the full circle come around and now I'm back where I should have always been. But the reason I'm there is because I had to learn how to love me.

So acting has always been there, man. It's always been my saving grace when kids ask me, what do I do for a living? I said, I pretend. I didn't like my life growing up, man. It was hard, man. So I used to pretend I was somebody else. Who didn't think they were Theo Huxtable growing up, I know I did. I know I did. I always used to fantasize being someone else because of the escape.

We didn't have social media. couldn't veg out and go down a rabbit hole of TikTok. So that's what acting did for me. It really allowed me to use this imagination to create the life that I always wanted.

Dominic Lawson (12:33)
You know, I definitely, you know, pretended to be Theo Huxtable from time to time. Maybe not when you had the Gordon Gartrell shirt, but you know what I'm saying? But fair enough. Fair enough. You're right. You're right. That's fair. Not the one Denise made. That was bad. That was bad. But one of the things I'm always fascinated by when it comes to actors and actresses and the craft, right?

Otis Winston (12:41)
No, you did when you thought he had the right one. When you thought he had the right one.

No.

Dominic Lawson (13:02)
is that I don't know if the average person realizes how much of a storyteller the actor is. I think they usually attribute it to the writer, the screenwriter, story editor, stuff like that, but not necessarily the actor itself. Walk me through that process of getting ready for a role and really putting Otis's stamp on it. Like man, like Otis owned that role and anybody else who come behind it, they, good luck.

Otis Winston (13:29)
Yeah, yeah.

Dominic Lawson (13:29)
Right? But talk

about that storytelling aspect of your craft.

Otis Winston (13:32)
Well, it's basically very simple. always tell, I do a workshop that I try to invite other actors in to inspire aspiring actors. Cause I know what it was like 15 years in the game, no agent, no manager. was just grinding, grinding, grinding, man grinding. So I try to let them realize that when you're walking into and you get a script, we don't act, we become.

Dominic Lawson (13:36)
Okay.

for a while.

Otis Winston (13:56)
We become, we become what we are trying to portray. And if I don't become that, guess what? I won't properly portray it. I won't properly portray it. When I did Mike, I played Lennox Lewis in the Hulu series, Mike. The crazy thing is I was only supposed to be there for one day. One day, I was supposed to go in there and just do the boxing. That's it. When I walked out, I didn't even know what character I was playing. I was just going to do the boxing stunt stuff.

Dominic Lawson (13:56)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Otis Winston (14:25)
because they asked me if I would do it. I just got done doing the outlaws with Pierce Brosnan and Adam Devine. was like, absolutely, I'll do it. They flew me to Mobile, Alabama, where my mom and dad is from. I had no idea who I was playing. I walk into, get the makeup and everything, hair, and I go into my trailer and I see these trunks that say Lennox. I'm like, I'm playing Lennox Lewis. When I stepped outside, they saw me. actually...

They was like, this dude look like Lennox Lewis. To the point to where I went from just one day to two weeks, one scene to three different scenes, speaking lines. And I became, I tried to make sure I became, even when I was like, with the accent, having to speak like him, the mannerisms, I had to really go into that part, you know? Because I didn't want, let's say if Lennox saw it.

Dominic Lawson (15:14)
Mm-hmm.

Otis Winston (15:19)
I didn't want him to look at him like, man, I didn't approach the press conference like that. When he bit me, I wasn't really trying to fight him. But when they saw it, were like, look, them dudes look like they were really scrapping him because, boy, he really bit me. During the filming of that, on the leg, he told me, he's a tra, tra, Travante said, get ready, just get ready. I'm going to do something to make sure you're ready. And when they said action, he bit me. So the reaction was real.

Dominic Lawson (15:23)
Right.

Okay.

Otis Winston (15:44)
because he didn't bite me hard, but just the fact that he bit me to get me to react. He became, I became. And that's what acting is. You become that part, you live that part, you breathe that part to the point to where they don't know where you begin or where that part ends. That's what it is.

Dominic Lawson (16:03)
Mm-hmm.

Gotcha. I'm curious, one last question about this before we move on, because I noticed that sometimes when you do become, sometimes actors get stuck there, right? And then tight cast happens and stuff like that. How do you become and then unbecome?

Otis Winston (16:14)
Yeah.

Dominic Lawson (16:25)
if that question makes sense.

Otis Winston (16:26)
It makes sense. I'll use, you want to know who's not been tight cast, who plays him to a T every role, Denzel.

Dominic Lawson (16:33)
Okay,

fair enough. Fair enough.

Otis Winston (16:38)
Denzel, unless he's doing like a character actor, unless he's playing like Malcolm X when he did that and Frank Lucas, he still put him on it. You see what I'm saying?

Dominic Lawson (16:39)
Absolutely.

No,

for sure. Like even when was in Gladiator 2, it was still Denzel. And was like, how did he pull that off?

Otis Winston (16:55)
Still Denzel. Still Denzel. You know what saying?

He's just, he's the goat to me, man. And so you pattern yourself by watching people like that who so...

Dominic Lawson (17:01)
Right.

Otis Winston (17:10)
Here's, I think here's one of the answers to that. Cause I just figured this out for myself. If you don't know who you are, truly know who you are, then how can you become? You will mimic everything that you touch. You will mimic everything that you touch. Now that I know who I am, I can play something and come back to me because I know me. Denzel can be everything he needs to be because he know who he is.

Dominic Lawson (17:14)
Okay.

enough.

Otis Winston (17:39)
He's Denzel to the core. know, Jamie's Jamie to the core. Tom Hanks is Tom Hanks to the core. Tommy Lee Jones is Tommy Lee Jones to the core. Tom Cruise is Tom Cruise to the core. You are, even Tom Cruise is always, you always see Tom Cruise. You always see all the right moves. of the movies that I saw from the first time, he's still acting the same way from outsiders to this, to Mission Impossible. It's still him.

Dominic Lawson (18:06)
Right.

Otis Winston (18:09)
And I love it. You you just got to know who you are to become and pull it off properly to me. That's my own personal opinion.

Dominic Lawson (18:16)
No,

that makes sense. And it makes sense that you are saying that because I think it also goes back to what you were saying earlier about loving yourself. Cause I think also if you love yourself and love on yourself, unbecoming and going back to who you are and knowing yourself is a lot easier as well. Cause it's one thing to know who you are. There's also something else to like love who you are. Like, you know what? I feel comfortable going back to who I am and who I'm all about and stuff like that. So now that, that, that makes sense. That makes sense.

Otis Winston (18:40)
Yeah.

Think about this, Will Smith talked about it in his book when he did Six Degrees of Separation, how he fell in love with his co-star. If you read Will's book, that was at a time where Will was going through a lot of stuff. So when you're going through stuff, the Bible says a double-minded man is unstable in all his ways. So if I'm double-minded in anything, I'm unstable in everything.

Dominic Lawson (18:50)
Mm-hmm.

Otis Winston (19:13)
And Will talked about how he did method acting and he got stuck. He got stuck. And to the point where he said, I will never, ever do that again. You know what I'm saying? So when I read his book and I listened to his book, his audio was amazing. One of the best audios I ever heard. That made me realize that, OK, I need to find me.

Dominic Lawson (19:26)
Yeah.

Otis Winston (19:38)
Reading Will's story and watching everything that happened and transpired over his life within the past three, four years, that made me realize that, OK, I need to do a deep, deep, deep dive because that's someone who I look up to. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Dominic Lawson (19:52)
It makes complete sense.

It makes complete sense. Thank you for sharing that. And that kind of leads me to your book, Stuttering to Success, a powerful title, by the way. What became the moment, the inflection point that, know what, okay, I've had this epiphany and it's time to share this with the world. What was that moment where it was like, it's time to write a book. It's time to share this with the world.

Otis Winston (20:19)
Well, I had it in my spirit for eight years and I just kept putting it up because I'm like, I gotta act, I gotta act, I gotta act. I gotta do this and know, I'm being a father and I had full custody over my children and we were raising them and I'm like making sure we had their games, but I gotta act, I gotta act, I gotta speak, I gotta act, I gotta speak. And I just felt the spirit say, I gave you what to do. When I turned 50, that's when it started really, really like knocking on the door.

Dominic Lawson (20:21)
Okay.

Okay.

Otis Winston (20:48)
Pentecost, Pentecost, the number is 50. Pentecost also means a sound. So basically I felt God say, there's a sound in you that I got to get out of you before you turn 51. There's something that has to come out of you. And I wrote the book in eight days, eight days, eight days. And that number eight is very significant because David was the eighth son. They say eight is the number of new beginnings.

Dominic Lawson (21:01)
Okay.

Wow.

Otis Winston (21:18)
So basically he said, I got a new beginning I'm trying to do with you, but you got to get this book out of you. And I had to sit down. Now I wrote it in eight days, but it took me, took us three months to edit it. And in eight days I've vomited everything that's ever happened to me out. And in three months, I realized that that 179 pages was me bleeding on everybody that, that hurt me.

Dominic Lawson (21:28)
Of course, of course.

Otis Winston (21:43)
And I had to get that 179 pages down to 79 pages because while I was reading and editing it, that's when I was healing. So there was something I had to do to heal. The book was my healing process.

Dominic Lawson (21:57)
You know, I appreciate the 179 pages because I think there's something to be said about that part of the healing process, right? Like you have to know, you have to put out there what did hurt you or what was the outside manifestation of that triggered the hurt for you, right? Right. You know, because you say something early about like accountability and this and the other, but I think there's something to be said about that. it's

Otis Winston (22:19)
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Dominic Lawson (22:27)
I appreciate you sharing that you had to have those 179 pages because that's part of the process, right? Even though it wasn't great for the book, right? You had to it down and stuff like that. I appreciate that process. And I don't know if we talk about that enough because we are, as a society, we're quick to like, this person wronged me, that person wronged me. Listen, I'm God working on me. Okay. I'm one of them people, right? But

Otis Winston (22:34)
Yeah.

Dominic Lawson (22:53)
But I appreciate you sharing that part of the process. so kudos to you on that.

Otis Winston (22:57)
Thank you, thank you. The 179 pages was for me. That was for me to look, reflect, heal. The 79 pages was for whoever God wants to minister to. Because how can he minister if all I'm doing is bleeding? My bleeding would bleed upon others, others. I didn't want that. I wanted people to read this and be like, I can do it too. Not, man, why did he? It wasn't no woe with me.

Dominic Lawson (23:10)
hear that.

Otis Winston (23:27)
If I got through this, you can get through it.

Dominic Lawson (23:30)
Right, right. What do you say to people, Otis, who feel held back from their limiting beliefs or the people who wrong them per se? Like, what do you say to people like that?

Otis Winston (23:43)
I tell people all the time, because I was one of these people that hold on. I talked to my daughter a lot, I'm like, girls, you hold no one is stopping you from truly reaching your full potential. And she's finally getting it and I'm watching her blossom. I'm watching her blossom. And I tell people all the time, you think you're hurting somebody by holding no one to the hurt that they gave you. You're not, you're hurting you.

You're hurting you because you can't reach your full potential because you're too busy holding holding back. If somebody hurt me in loving, right? And all I do is hold on to that hurt and someone who truly I need, who I truly need comes into my life and they can love me properly. But I'm holding on to old hurt of being loved improperly.

Dominic Lawson (24:22)
Mm-hmm.

Otis Winston (24:39)
I will miss a chance of being properly loved because I'm holding on to something that I should have let go. I should have let go, man. So I'm not missing anything that God has for me. And the only way I can do that is say, okay, I forgive. They asked Christ, how often should you forgive? He says 70 times seven, that's a day. He ain't saying a year. He said, that's a day. Forgiveness is for me. It's for us.

Dominic Lawson (25:04)
Right. Right.

I'm just going to

say that because that's you hear that often, right? Forgiveness isn't for the other person. Forgiveness is for you, right? It's for us, right? No, that's not. I appreciate you saying that. Appreciate you saying that.

Otis Winston (25:15)
Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah. And

once I realized that, so I would tell people, if you're unhappy with your life, you change it. You change it by forgiving. You change it by letting go. You change it by handling it different. Like, I couldn't control the family I came into. I'd had no control of being born by Donald and Barbara Winston. I had no control of that.

I had no control of starting with my stutter. I had no control of people making fun of me when I stuttered. The only control I have is how do I use that power now? Because those who once made fun of me now hear that I'm not stuttering. Now do I get on a bullhorn like, you raggedy mother? No, I don't. I don't. I say, you know what? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for teaching me what I needed to learn.

Dominic Lawson (25:56)
Right.

Right.

Right. Right. Let me ask you this though, because usually, well, not usually, is one thing to have that forgiveness outside of the family's system, right? But you also talked about some of that making fun of stuff like that, the stuttering inside the family system. How do you differentiate or maybe you don't differentiate between outside the family system and inside the family system of as far as like what that healing looks like? Does that question make sense?

Otis Winston (26:49)
Yeah, we hold on to it harder when it's family. I know I did. You know, when my dad went away, you know, I held on to that. You know, I was like, oh, no, you're going to, you're going to, I'm going to make you feel the way you made me feel. I'm going to make you, it wasn't doing anybody no good. So we, we think that

Dominic Lawson (26:51)
That's fair. Yeah.

Mmm.

Okay.

Otis Winston (27:12)
We think that we can accomplish what we really, really want to accomplish and you can't. You can't. You can't be free if something is weighing you down. How can you be free if something is weighing you down? So I had to let go of whatever was weighing me down so I can be free. So if it's family, nine times out of 10, it is family. People get ungodly things done to them by their family, by their family. Now, I'm not saying continue to allow them to do those things to you. What I'm saying is,

Dominic Lawson (27:23)
Right.

Otis Winston (27:42)
Don't allow what they did make you not be who you were truly created to be. Don't give no one that power. I have that power. I'm not giving nobody power over how I feel, my mood, how I react, how I respond. No, you don't have that power over me. I take my power back. I dictate that, not you.

So that's how we got to do it. got to let family, we got to give grace. We got to give people grace, man. That's something I had to learn. Grace is a word that we throw around a lot that we don't use a lot. Same with love. You don't know what real love is.

Dominic Lawson (28:19)
No, that's fair. That's fair. Great.

But I imagine though, and you probably can attest to this grace, but with boundaries because, again, like you do have to, talked earlier about loving yourself, but also sometimes you got to protect yourself, right? Sometimes you got to, you know, kind of going back to the boxing reference you got to put, put, put the, put the defenses up a little bit. Right. Right. Yeah.

Otis Winston (28:27)
Absolutely!

You do. You do. Because

if you don't, here's the thing. I'm never going to be in something that's going to harm me. So if something is harming me, I forgive you, but I keep going back to what's harming me. That's dumb on me. That goes back to me not loving me. I don't want to learn how to be in something that's toxic. I don't want to learn how to

live in a toxic environment because it's just my norm. No, my norm is love. I want love. I want real love, but I gotta know that, no, you're not good for me, but I'm not gonna, when I see you, I'm not gonna be mad at you. I'm like, hey, how are you doing? You good? Okay, let me keep it moving. I'm not letting you in that space. Like you said, I do have to protect me and my brother.

Dominic Lawson (29:28)
For

sure, for sure. You know, one of the things I hear you talking about, I'm gonna ask this question, then we'll move on to, I wanna talk about your time at Ohio State in the sports and things of that nature. One of the things that I hear as a recurring theme in this conversation is being a dad, being a father. I've heard you mention that multiple times. That sounds important to you, right? And you also talked about your dad leaving and things of that nature. Talk about the importance of...

Black fatherhood because there are stereotypes, there are myths, there are whatever, even though there's literally stats from the CDC that contradicts those myths, but they're still out there, right? Talk about the importance of Black fatherhood and what that means to you.

Otis Winston (30:08)
Yeah.

Man, that means everything to me, man. I had a speech yesterday and you like one of the students, you just ask the question that really makes me emotional. We got full custody over my kids, I think when they were 11 and nine or 13 and 11, one or two. And it was the best day of my life, man. My children are my reason why. And I remember when I was

going after this goal, mean, a lot happened on March 10th, I mean, March 1st, 2010, a lot happened. It was like my bottom fell out. And to end up getting back to that space to where my kids could see me, I never wanted to chase my dream and be the reason why when my kids got older that they sat on someone's couch and asked that physician,

Why didn't my dad stay? So I never wanted to be that reason. So my children have always been my reason why. And they're the reason why I wanted to show them that it doesn't matter how you start. The only thing that matters how you finish. I had a choice. They didn't ask to be here. That was something that their mom and I decided. Right? So.

I used to say this all the time, man. I'm sacrificing for my kids. I would wake up in the middle, do it like a third hour. I would be working in Chicago on Chicago PD. I would drive all through the night, get there at six o'clock, do my set, get off set, get in the car, drive back home, make sure I catch my daughter or my son's basketball game, volleyball game, whatever it is, it was going on. And I always told myself I'm sacrificing, I'm sacrificing, I'm sacrificing for y'all, I'm sacrificing for y'all. And one day I had this epiphany. I wasn't sacrificing, bro.

It's not sacrificing. I was parenting.

I was parenting. I'm looking for this word so I can get this clap on the back that I'm sacrificing. No, I'm parenting. And that's my greatest honor is parenting. The hardest job I've ever had in my life, but the most fulfilling one has been being at fault.

Dominic Lawson (32:24)
Right.

Right.

I hear that. I hear that. No, absolutely. Like I said, it felt like a recurring theme in this conversation, even not just from your own experience. You were talking about LeBron and Brony and him defending his son in public. It also made me think about LeVar Ball and his boys and being proactively like, listen, my boys are great. My boys are awesome, this and the other. And I think for some reason, we talked about the myth. We also,

Otis Winston (32:41)
beautiful

Thank

Dominic Lawson (33:08)
should probably have a conversation, not like me and you, but like just overall about like how it's okay for the Black dad to outwardly, openly champion their kids. Like my kids are great. Our kids are this. My kids are that, right? And also defending with need be. So I thought that may be something that resonated with me.

Otis Winston (33:19)
yeah.

It really did. I did a movie a year and a half ago, probably two years ago called Red One. I did it with The Rock in down in Atlanta. And I remember when him and I had this conversation and we both was talking about sports. And then I told him that my son, my son is currently out of Ohio State. He's a high jumper. I played ball in a high jump and my high jump record is still there over 30 years later. And he asked me, said, do you think your son is going to break your record? I said, I think he's going to break it. said, he was born to break it.

Dominic Lawson (33:35)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm

Otis Winston (33:57)
I said, he is born to do greater than me. I told DJ, I said, you understand this.

He's from a legacy, his grandfather, then his father, and then him. My son is from a legacy, me, now him. So legacy is huge, but I champion my children. Y'all expect LeBron not to champion Brony People saying, he's only there because of his dad. people felt a real life. This young man had open heart surgery not too long ago.

and he's back and he's doing this. Of course I'm going to be there to do anything I can do to say, look, bro, whatever you need, I know you probably don't need anything from Little ole Me, but I'm going to be here and be like, look, I support that 150 % because we don't do it enough.

We don't do it enough. I know what it was like to stand on the sideline and not have someone there to cheer me on and to get scared. And my father wasn't there. It wasn't that he didn't want to be there. He just couldn't be there. I know what that felt like. So can you imagine how?

I feel when I see my son and my like my son popped his Achilles like eight weeks ago. It was the worst feeling I ever felt in my life. But the greatest feeling was I was there. I was able to carry him off the track. I was able to carry him to the car. I was able to be there when he got a surgery done and I was able to look at him and say, you are going to bounce back and I'm going to be here. I'm not just here doing a good times. I'm not just here when

You're holding up the trophy to win. I got to be here to help you get through the mud. I have to be here. And that's what I love so much about the Bronny and LeBron thing. LeBron was dealing with so much. And then a few days ago, received Bronny scored 17 Man, that's amazing to me because his father had to endure and his son had to endure the ridicule of everything and everybody because people love to see

Dominic Lawson (35:54)
Right.

Otis Winston (36:04)
who they think on top, not be on top anymore. You know what saying? So I'm going to champion anything. I tell fathers all the time, champion your son. Tell him you love him. Tell him he's great. Tell him he can accomplish whatever he put his head and his mind to. Because that's what we're supposed to do. My nephews just won a state championship yesterday. Their dad T, he had them boys like training since they were little tights. And I watched three brothers get on the court.

Dominic Lawson (36:07)
Right.

Otis Winston (36:32)
two seniors and a sophomore and win the division two state title. I said the dad deserves a trophy because when everybody was saying they couldn't do it when they were kids, he stayed there. He had them in the gym. He made sure they were there. He wiped their tears. He picked them up off the floor. That's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to be hard on them, but we're also supposed to love them and nurture them.

Dominic Lawson (36:37)
pretty awesome.

Right.

Right. Right. No, you know, it's interesting. It always amazes me when we talk about the idea of nepotism, what you were talking about earlier, like he's only in the NBA because his dad. Listen, when other communities pass down law firms, other communities pass down other businesses, we have multitude of legacies at like Harvard, Yale, Columbia, you know, and stuff like that. But that's not a problem. this Black father putting on this, all right, never mind. That's neither here nor there. Let me get on my soapbox.

Otis Winston (37:21)
bruh, let me get where I

need to get in Hollywood. They can blame his kids, nope. His grandkids, nope. They coming up under everything.

Dominic Lawson (37:25)
Listen, right.

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. Let's talk about your time in sports in Ohio State. Like what was the first sport you tried and really like, you know what? I kind of like this sport thing, but I also know that you was talking about your brothers and being in sports. So we'll kind of talk about all of that if you don't mind.

Otis Winston (37:51)
What's crazy is that my very first sport that I tried was baseball. When I tried football and I failed miserably at a young age. And then we moved from Youngstown to Toronto, baseball was my first sport. That was my first love. And I became very, very pretty, pretty, pretty good at it. And then went from baseball to football and football, like I just started to thrive.

Dominic Lawson (37:54)
Okay.

Otis Winston (38:13)
And I talk about it in my book, man. I almost scored a touchdown, my very first touchdown and I didn't. And I came home and I told my mom and I was excited. And I said, I almost scored a touchdown. She said, but you didn't. And boy, it broke me. It broke me. But what happened was I think a week or two later, I ended up scoring three because I wanted to prove to her that.

Dominic Lawson (38:28)
I bet. I bet.

Otis Winston (38:39)
okay, if that's what I need to do, then that's what I'm going to do. So baseball and football were the sports that became very, very easy to me. And I just ended up passing that off to the side and got focused on track and basketball. And those were the two that I just rode into the sunset until I couldn't ride it no.

Dominic Lawson (38:42)
Right.

Okay.

Otis Winston (39:00)
no longer, you know, and I did it in Toronto. Then I went from Toronto High School to the Ohio State University. And it was rough, man. I averaged, I think, a double-double or triple-double in high school. And I jumped over seven feet, was a three-time high jump state champion, sophomore, junior, and senior year in high school. And I won a long jump state champion my senior year. And then to get to Ohio State and sit at the end of the bench and...

walk in and have the coach say that I would never play there and to not leave and stay there. And the same coach who told me I would never play there end up having to start me my junior year and then name me the captain my senior year after I reassured it and came back from track because I qualified for the 90, 96 Olympic trials. It was just a whirlwind, man. And it was something that I kept like wanting.

Dominic Lawson (39:42)
Mm-mm.

Otis Winston (39:58)
People ask me, my son is smart. He's way smarter than me. He was a basketball kid. didn't start track until he was a junior in high school and track just became his thing. But he chose track over basketball. I didn't have a me in my life. I didn't know what to choose. So I kept doing both. Now track was my more natural sport. Basketball, I just had a coach that, I don't know, he just saw different things than I saw. So that made me look at life differently.

Dominic Lawson (40:18)
break.

Otis Winston (40:27)
as well as being a former coach. I coach differently. I coach every kid. It's like parenting. You can't parent kids the same. And if you think you're going to parent every kid the same way, guess what? You're going to mess up as a parent.

Dominic Lawson (40:36)
No you cannot. No you cannot.

Yeah, for sure. Right.

Otis Winston (40:46)
They're different. Just like athletes, they're different.

You can't coach the kids the same. They all need different things. And that's what I learned, and I'm glad I learned it.

Dominic Lawson (40:55)
Right.

No, you know, and speaking of learning from sports, what are, you know, because not everybody plays sports, right? But I think sports is, first of all, I sports is the is the best reality TV known to man, right? Like there's nothing like it. Right. So there's that. But number two, I feel like there's so many life lessons that you get from sports. What are some of those life lessons you got personally from playing sports?

Otis Winston (41:13)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

You can work your butt off and not get the opportunity, but you got to keep working because your time just hasn't come yet.

Dominic Lawson (41:31)
Okay.

And that relates to

what you were saying earlier about like, you you're in the film, you get the one line, the one line get cut, but you still enjoyed the process. So I appreciate that,

Otis Winston (41:42)
Absolutely. Practice, practice, practice. Not a game. We're talking about practice? Practice. Yeah, practice is where it all happens. You know, just like now, I watch different films. That's me. That's my... In sports, we would call that studying tape. I'm studying the game film. When I watch TV shows, I'm studying tape. I'm studying actors because I have to learn more.

Dominic Lawson (41:51)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm

Otis Winston (42:06)
So the same way with sports, man, you practice and you practice and you practice and you learn how to give and be dedicated. You wake up and you crack a dawn till this day. I still work out five days a week. It's in me. It's embedded in me. I can get on set and be on set for 17 hours and stay locked in because that's all I know. I've been doing this since I was what? 10, 11, I mean, 12, 12 on up. Like.

because sports started in middle school for me. I was 12 years old in seventh grade and it started and I just kept going and kept going and kept going. And so that's how it is as an athlete. You have to be locked in. can't, you gotta have those blinders on. And if you don't have those blinders on, then you're gonna fall short.

My bonus son about to go to YSU to play football. And we tell him all the time, give yourself these next four years, you just stay focused on you, selfishly focused on you. In this order, God, school, football, you. God, school, football, you. Family is after that. You do that, everything will take care of itself. Kids just lose it. They think they got time and you don't.

You don't. Time is more precious than love. You can give, you can give your, I can love you today, right? And not love you tomorrow. But what we're doing right now, I can never get that back. I'm spending time with you. I can never get that back. So who you spend time with and what you spend time on is the most important thing in the world.

Dominic Lawson (43:30)
Right. Right.

I want to ask you a follow up real quick before we kind of transition and start round and third heading home here to use a baseball reference. You talk about that selfish piece, and I think there's there's a level of selfishness. I kind of call it responsible selfishness, whereas like you do have to make sure. And we kind of talked about this earlier, put your mask on for you, put somebody else's mask on, like making sure you're straight and and one.

phrase I remember hearing from, I think it was a preacher, guarding your focus. Like you have to guard that focus, right? And so when you were talking just now, that's what it made me think of. Talk about that responsible selfishness. they sometimes, like, listen, like y'all cool, y'all my friends, but I gotta go train. Y'all cool, y'all family, but I gotta go read these lines. Like talk about that selfishness for a minute. this is going on my-

Otis Winston (44:24)
Yeah.

Responsible selfishness to me is I haven't gotten to where I want to go, right? And I'm hanging out with people who have no responsibilities that they have to like, they're required to pay or do or whatever. And I'm hanging out with them and I spend time with them instead of focusing on what I really need to do. I got a

Dominic Lawson (44:51)
Right.

Otis Winston (45:13)
big audition that's coming up or I gotta I start filming and I'm not ready I haven't studied my lines because I already got the part I got the part I don't got to study my lines I don't got to worry about showing up on on set ready that's very very very irresponsible selfish to me responsible selfishness is making sure that I ain't

I stay ready so I don't have to worry about getting ready. I say that all the time. That's why I stay in the gym. I stay ready, I don't have to worry about getting ready. That's a responsible selfishness. I take care of my health. That's responsible selfishness. I got children that I'm still looking, yes, they're adults now, but I got grandchildren as well. me...

being irresponsible with my body, eating whatever I want, living any way I want, doing anything I want to do, and then cutting my lifespan short because I'm unhealthy now. That's very irresponsible. And that's not responsible selfishness. Responsible selfishness is making sure that I put all my ducks in a row because I never know when that time is going to come where it says lights out.

Responsible selfishness is making sure I'm ready if that phone call ever comes. Hey, Otis, we want you to come and play this role of such and such. You ready? Absolutely, I'm ready. Absolutely, I'm ready. That's responsible selfishness. And people don't realize that. It's like, and then when that comes and I'm not ready, the people who I was hanging with,

Are they gonna be able to pick up the slack for me? Can I call on them to pay my bills? Could I sleep on their couch if I get evicted? That's not responsible selfishness. Responsible selfishness is being the best version of you at all times and loving you so much that you can lend a hand to those who need. I can't lend a hand if I'm always there needing my hand out.

Dominic Lawson (46:59)
Right.

For sure. And Dripping in Black Family, these are, I'm pretty sure these are some of the tenants and more lessons and life lessons that Otis gives you in his book. Please sure to check that out in the show notes and purchase the book. I imagine it's a phenomenal book that's definitely going to help somebody. So listen, man, what's next for you? What's, you know, like I said, I know you're getting ready to start filming on a project here soon. I know you probably can't spill the beans on what that is. That's fine. You know, but.

Kind of talk about what's next for you, what you got in the pipeline, what's next, what's going on. Just kind of share a little bit about that if you don't mind.

Otis Winston (47:56)
What's next is I'm constantly auditioning, constantly auditioning. Got some stuff in the works, filming wise. I'm doing a lot with this book, a lot of speaking and promoting the book. We've sold over a thousand books so far. Thank you, thank you. It's on my website, the Buck Up Born Apparel website. You can get it out there. We got the hard copy, you know, the hard copy. We got the paperback as well on my website. And I'm just...

Dominic Lawson (48:11)
Congratulations, man.

There it is.

Otis Winston (48:26)
I'm just getting ready for these speaking engagements, and engage in the community and making these kids realize that, if Otis can do it, then so can I. That's my goal. I want people to look at me and say, man, he did it. He he stuttered. He was so he'd never been a properly talking. And then he graduated from the Ohio State University with a communications degree and he's an actor and he speaks. You know, it's like my once issue that I had.

became a gift. It became a gift. And I want people to understand that. So I'm just trying to get out here in the community, man, and do my thing and do my part. Do my part.

Dominic Lawson (49:09)
I hear that. Now, listen, man, you've already given so many gems and nuggets and everything in this conversation, in your book and throughout your life. And before I ask this last question, I just want to say again, thank you so much for coming on the Dripping in Black podcast and sharing your wisdom and sharing your knowledge. And S Squared is going to queue up something here for you just as a show, as a token of our appreciation.

for sharing your time and your abilities and your gifts and your words and everything with us. And so while he's getting that squared away, I want to ask you this, man, listen, you've already inspired so many people from inside your, in your, your family system outside and everything else in between, man. Like what's that? And you've shared some of this, but I want to crystallize it just as a final bow on this conversation. What's a lasting piece of advice you can give somebody who just feels stuck, man. Like, listen, like

I'm doing the auditions. I'm going to the tryouts. And we're not just talking about adults, we're talking about kids. I'm going to the tryouts. I'm going to the auditions. I wanna read for Othello, but I don't know if I got it, right? Talk to that person about if they feel stuck. What advice you got for

Otis Winston (50:26)
I can give them the advice that was given to me. remember the first time I met Jamie Foxx and I was talking to him and he said something to me. He probably don't even remember saying this to me. He said something to me that changed my life. He said he's never seen, said, this business is crazy. It's crazy. A lot of people want to do it. A lot of people want to get in this business. It's crazy. You know, but you can do it. You can do it. He said, but this is the only way you're going to be able to do it. And he said this, says, I've never seen anyone not give up.

That didn't make it.

If you want to make it, you can't give up. You just got to keep going. He said, I've never seen someone who didn't give up, not make it. that's my advice to people. Whatever you want, even if it's not happening, keep going because you control it. It's like me. I know what I'm supposed to be doing and I keep doing it. I keep doing it. I don't care. You know how many auditions I've

I've only done what 40, 40 something movies and TV shows. I've had over 400, 500 auditions. You what I mean? Nose, though, that is. You know what mean? Nose, that is. But I don't care about the nose because all I need is that one yes. And that one yes can change your life. That one yes can change your life. And the last thing I will leave you all with is this. And I put this on the back of all my shirts, on the back of all my shirts. Never allow your talent to take you where your character can't keep you.

Dominic Lawson (51:40)
Right.

Otis Winston (51:58)
Your talent will get you in the room. Your character is what keeps you there. And that's the last line in my book as well. Never allow your talent to take you where your character can't you.

Dominic Lawson (52:07)
I love that. And I appreciate that sentiment. I think that's definitely a sentiment that is one of those things where it's simple yet profound. And I don't mean that in derogatory negative way. It's very simple, but it's extremely profound. So I appreciate that, brother, for sure. like I said, one of the things we love to do here on Dripping in Black is immortalize

Otis Winston (52:20)
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Dominic Lawson (52:35)
know our time together and your time here on Dripping' in Black. And so what S Squared is going to pull up here shortly is just a memento to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your wisdoms. Thank you for sharing your time and all the things in between. There we go. So that is a magazine cover of my guy Otis D. Winston. Hey man, that's a pretty dope cover right there, man. I see...

Otis Winston (52:51)
Absolutely.

I love that cover man. I need to put that on my socials.

Dominic Lawson (53:04)
Man,

listen, I see you with the Carl Thomas turtleneck thing going, man. I love it. I ain't mad at it. I love it. There it is. See, there it is, brother. You know what I'm talking about.

Otis Winston (53:10)
Now...

I wish I never met her.

that's stupid. That's funny.

Okay.

Dominic Lawson (53:27)
But that's just a momentum, a momento to say thank you so much for coming on the Dripping In Black podcast and really appreciate you for doing this, man. Any last words, any last things you want to plug? Make sure you plug the apparel and the book and everything else in between if you don't mind,

Otis Winston (53:44)
yeah, man.

My apparel, course, buckeyebornapparel.com. You can get out there, you get the Buckeye Born apparel, you get the Focus apparel. And of course, man, you can get the book, man. You can get the book, Stutter into Success, you know. And last thing I would say, stutter is a metaphor. Everybody has a stutter in your life. Mine just started off physically. I had other stutters as I continued to grow. And whatever your stutter is, always remember this, your stutter is not your stumbling block. It's your stepping stone.

Your stutter should never make you stop. It's just a pause. It's a hesitation. And regroup, refocus, rethink, and keep going.

Dominic Lawson (54:23)
Man, that's it. That's it right there. Otis, thank you so much for coming on the show and Dripping' in Black Family. Thank you for allowing us to have this conversation and you being a part of it. Again, make sure you go and check out everything that Otis just mentioned. Also make sure you check out the merch shop, D-I-B-K-DripShop.com. Thank you, S Squared, for letting me be the guest host again. And thank you, Dripping in Black Family, for allowing me to serve you.

in this role. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. Thank you for supporting. And also thank you for subscribing. And until next time, be kind, be excellent on purpose. It's a choice, but above all else, keep it Black. Peace.

That's it, brother.

Otis Winston (55:07)
That was dope, man. I appreciate it.

Dominic Lawson (55:09)
I appreciate you, man. Thank you so much for your time and energy. I wasn't, that was not a slight to call Thomas. I hope it wasn't. I hope it wasn't. Man, listen, listen, listen. I love, I love how we can have conversation as us and like, and we just know it because I think somebody had made that joke on social media.

Otis Winston (55:15)
No, that was hilarious. I loved it. No, no, I loved it, bro. I loved it. Because you know, Carl Thomas, that was my man. That's why I said I wish I hadn't.

Bottoms are good!

Dominic Lawson (55:35)
where you can be the only two Black people in like a meeting. Like I see you with the Carl Thomas down there and they're my only two people who get it. So, yeah, I was digging it. I was digging it for sure.

Otis Winston (55:39)
Ha!

I

love it. love it. Now do I do the Dripping Black thing?

Dominic Lawson (55:48)
We're about to do it right now. Esquire is

proud to come on the microphone and kind of lead you to do that in just a second.